Transcript of Interview (Translated)

[Pierre Breytenbacht]
You may have read in the Sunday newspaper, just like I did, about the new Grand Master of the Cape Lodge of the Freemasons. This piqued our curiosity, and we invited Watty Watson from the Grand Lodge in Johannesburg. Welcome, Watty.

[Watty Watson]
Good morning, good morning to your listeners.

[Pierre Breytenbacht]
What is the history of the Freemasons? How long have they been in the country?

[Watty Watson]
There are various theories about how long Freemasonry has existed. It is certainly one of the oldest organisations in the world that we can research. The exact time cannot be determined, but I can tell you that the first Grand Lodge was established in the early 1700s in England.

From there, it spread worldwide. The Dutch, who settled here in South Africa, had their own Grand Lodge. And in 1772, the first Masonic Lodge in South Africa was established in Cape Town—Lodge de Goede Hoop.

[Pierre Breytenbacht]
It was fascinating to read in the newspaper that Parliament was built on Freemason land.

[Watty Watson]
Exactly. The old Cape Parliament, which began in 1854, was initiated by Freemasons. And the first Speaker of Parliament was none other than Sir Christoffel Brand, the father of Jan Brand, the President of the Free State. He was the Speaker of Parliament for 23 years, but at the same time, he was the Deputy Grand Master of the Netherlands.

Fifty-two years ago, we separated our Grand Lodge from the Dutch jurisdiction. Two years ago, we celebrated our 50th anniversary. We are very proud to say that we are a completely sovereign and independent Grand Lodge in South Africa.

But let me tell you something. Because of our history of takeovers—first by England, then by the Dutch, followed by an influx of Scots, Irish, and other nations with the discovery of gold and diamonds—Freemasonry has always been present.

We still have several Grand Lodges in South Africa under the jurisdiction of the Grand Lodge of England, the Grand Lodge of Ireland, and the Grand Lodge of Scotland. However, we work well together.

That being said, they are accountable to their Grand Lodges overseas, while we have our own Grand Lodge in South Africa. And here is our yearbook.

[Pierre Breytenbacht]
I was just about to say, there is almost a myth surrounding you. People say it's a secretive organisation. You never reveal what you do, and you keep everything quiet. Why is there such a myth about the Freemasons?

[Watty Watson]
You know, my children—who are all grown up and married with their own children—could tell you what it’s all about when they were little. We have never hidden anything from anyone.

We publish a yearbook every year, and we are now going to make it electronic. It will be available on our website so that anyone can read it. Our website is accessible, and we publish information about all the Grand Lodges. We have good relationships with over 110 Grand Lodges worldwide.

However, globally, it is true that Freemasonry was kept very secretive in the past. And I think our members, especially the older ones, liked not telling anyone anything—just like the Broederbond, which was later formed.

You never knew where they were or what they did. A friend of mine, who was a member of the Broederbond, told me that when their meetings were held at his house, the children had to be sent away to visit other places.

[Pierre Breytenbacht]
There was a perception in the old days that you either belonged to the Broederbond or the Freemasons. Was that true?

[Watty Watson]
Look, the Broederbond is just a young organisation that started relatively recently. It fully took shape in the early 1920s. The perception was that the Broederbond was founded to uplift the Afrikaners.

They did excellent work. However, I have no doubt that they were founded by Freemasons because they also had rituals that they borrowed from us.

And because the Afrikaners at the time were not as numerous as they are today, the only way they could ensure they recruited members was by tarnishing the Freemasons. That’s how this story came about. And what did they use? The church and women.

[Pierre Breytenbacht]
Speaking of the church, some people say you are a bunch of devil worshippers. What is that about? Apparently, as I read in the newspaper, you only allow people to join as long as they have a faith.

[Watty Watson]
Well, let me explain the myth surrounding religion and other matters. Many of the myths about us trying to be believers stem from the fact that we refer to our lodge buildings as temples.

The reason for this is that all of Freemasonry, I believe, originated from the old Crusades, where the stone masons—who built those beautiful churches—formed themselves into lodges.

That’s where some secrecy emerged, as they wanted to preserve their professional knowledge. Those were their secrets. But over the years, this evolved from operative Freemasonry (actual stone building) to speculative Freemasonry (symbolic teachings).

We still practise what we call "the craft," but we do so symbolically. In other words, all the tools of a real builder, especially stone masons, who shape the roof and beams perfectly, are still part of our symbolism. But now, instead of building temples, we build people.

Because what do we say Freemasonry is? We say we want a good man. We want to give him the opportunity to make himself a better man.

So that he can fulfil his duties toward his country, his faith, his work, and above all, his family—his wife, children, and relatives. The fact that we do not allow atheists is probably another reason why people associate us with religion. You must have faith.

You must believe in a creator. We do not discriminate whether you are Muslim, Catholic, Reformed, or anything else. As long as you believe there is a God, a Supreme Being, a Creator, and that life on earth does not end here.

That there is an afterlife. Otherwise, we prepare you for knowledge, and the best knowledge is self-knowledge. You must work, and you will die.

[Pierre Breytenbacht]
Now, people say you discriminate because women are not allowed to join. But what about gay men? You talk about a "man in the fraternity." How does that work?

[Watty Watson]
A man is a man. It doesn’t matter what his colour is or what he does after hours; a man is a man. The organisation is a brotherhood.

It is established as a fraternity. There is no way a woman can be part of our brotherhood. When I was the Provincial Grand Master of Transvaal, I started the idea that we should make Freemasonry a family organisation.

And we really succeeded. I was in Senekal on Saturday, and there were almost more women at the event—celebrating a lodge’s 100th anniversary—than men.

Because while the rituals and workings inside our lodge buildings are for men only, beyond that, we are family-oriented. And we are very proud of that.

[Pierre Breytenbacht]
We are almost out of time, but we talked about symbolism and various things. I must admit, the first time I heard about Freemasonry was through a friend whose father was a Freemason. I was shocked to hear that they do more charity work than my church does.

[Watty Watson]
Even if we had 10 more minutes, it would be too little time to explain. But let me tell you: in Cape Town, where the first lodge was established—the oldest active lodge in the Southern Hemisphere—there is an annual Spring Ball held in August.

The money raised goes solely towards building and maintaining homes for the elderly and the disabled. This is just one example. The same happens in Durban, Pretoria, and Johannesburg—such as the Roslin Park retirement home, maintained by the Freemasons.

[Pierre Breytenbacht]
Speaking of the Cape Lodge, just to end, what about the skeletons? Can we joke and say "skeletons in the closet"?

[Watty Watson]
Yes, certainly. But these days, the skeletons we use are plastic—like those used by medical students. It’s purely symbolic.

[Pierre Breytenbacht]
Watty, thank you for your time.

[Watty Watson]
You're welcome.

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